Educer - Latest Comments

Re: Journaling And Such

lyn_moleskiners — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 04:36:24 -0000

that's great! can't wait to see the contents of your Moleskine... :)

Re: Sometimes You Want More Rivers – Categories in My Status Cloud

takeshi39 — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 03:11:36 -0000

test

Re: Google Wave - Conversation Doesn’t Have To Be Chess

twitter-14902465 — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 15:33:29 -0000

I see the analogy. I question whether hyper-realtime conversation in written form can flow as naturally as the spoken exchange, and whether it'll be possible to make sense of multi-threaded conversations by scanning through them quickly, or will we have to rely on the timelapse "replay" feature? This is something we've not experienced before, and new skills will have to be learned.

It'll definitely be fun pushing the limits of human interaction, and thanks again for the invite!

Re: On pubsubhubbub (Part 2) – Get with it, PuSH, you’re supposed to be realtime.

julien51 — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 02:25:53 -0000

It's definetely certain that both technologies have rough edges, but the future is the end of polling :) BTW, you should check out http://superfeedr.com for mystatuscloud, as I am pretty sure it will be very useful for you!

Re: On pubsubhubbub (Part 2) – Get with it, PuSH, you’re supposed to be realtime.

jeremyfelt — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:02:25 -0000

Hi Brett, thanks for stopping by.

This comment stream aside, the original post was written more as my perception than science. Rereading, it's a pretty unorganized perception. Ahh, late nights. There's more too the rambling, but if you come away with one thing from the above, it's that I don't see the FeedBurner stuff being real time as I thought it would.

I'll be grinding through the data more closely as the week goes on. The initial conclusions are based on a snapshot look at the initial 24 hours or so of use.

I can't answer to the latency yet, but I also can't imagine it being too high. Not a perfect answer, I know, but the server is on Amazon's EC2 and overall latency (network and system) seems low. Almost the only traffic coming in is from rssCloud and PubSubHubBub notifications. From watching Dave's rssCloud log (light pings), the time posted is usually less than .300 seconds.

The feeds that I've noticed the most issues with are from FeedBurner. My guess is that the delay and re-pushes are due to the ping scheduling between publisher->FeedBurner->PuSH. Once publishers start pinging directly to the hub instead of relying on a middle man, I would think that these issues clear up. See previous post directed at publishers.

The feeds that I've noticed the best response with are from Google Reader shared items. Again, perception, but things seem to run pretty smoothly here.

My generated twitter-link feeds seem to be sporadic when done in quick succession. @mmastrac pointed out after I posted last night that this could be a "race" between the feed writing and the hub reading if things are happening quickly enough. I still need to explore that.

You've given me a bunch of stuff to look at. I'll do what I can to start logging and parsing all of it and then provide the results. Hopefully I find a few problems with my code to fix along the way. :)

Re: On pubsubhubbub (Part 2) – Get with it, PuSH, you’re supposed to be realtime.

Brett Slatkin — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:21:21 -0000

Hey Jeremy, Thanks for reporting your experiences so far. How long was the sample period for your testing? I wonder what your results would be over the course of a week. It would be great to see some more data on end-to-end latency, retry attempts, duplicate deliveries, bandwidth, etc, especially if it were broken down by feed type.

Otherwise, what is your subscriber's average latency for handling notifications? The reference Hub is defensive about delivering to subscribers that track many feeds and are slow to respond. So, if you're taking over 5 seconds, you may see slowdowns. It's best to process incoming notifications asynchronously if you can.

Re: On pubsubhubbub (Part 2) – Get with it, PuSH, you’re supposed to be realtime.

jeremyfelt — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:02:33 -0000

Google did make announcements though.

http://adsenseforfeeds.blogspot.com/2009/07/wha... - Google announces PubSubHubBub support in FeedBurner feeds for AdSense, notifying a "Google-run Hub".

http://googlereader.blogspot.com/2009/08/pubsub... - Google announces PubSubHubBub support for shared items in Reader.

http://buzz.blogger.com/2009/08/blogger-joins-h... - "All blog post feeds now contain a "hub" element, and will ping Google's hub on every post update."

http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/08/towards-... - "we have gone a step further and added PubSubHubbub support to Google Alerts."

I'm not trying to push any blame on Brett. Google owns this now and should help any issues along. I've written about some of the issues I'm seeing with Google's PubSubHubBub Hub.

Constructive discussion about the issues I've been seeing is definitely welcome.

Re: On pubsubhubbub (Part 2) – Get with it, PuSH, you’re supposed to be realtime.

Amos Jones — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:41:17 -0000

Google did not make any announcements about Brett Slatkin's hub. It's not a Google product.

There are rough edges on all the work that's going on. We should cut everybody some slack including Brett Slatkin.

Re: On pubsubhubbub (Part 2) – Get with it, PuSH, you’re supposed to be realtime.

jeremyfelt — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:03:31 -0000

Cool, I'm not a big AppEngine guy. Not trying to argue the architecture. My perception is that it's stable and stays up.

Plugging the hub into many feeds is a great way to test. But, two things.

1) When you're big like Google and you announce the implementation, the perception given to me, the developer, is that you're ready.

2) When I, the developer, do start using it, I'll get a perception on how it's working and I'll share it.

If others have details on how it's working for them, I'd love to share examples. I'm having fun working with both rssCloud and PubSubHubBub and coding > arguing.

Re: On pubsubhubbub (Part 2) – Get with it, PuSH, you’re supposed to be realtime.

Amos Jones — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:10:59 -0000

All applications running on App Engine are forced to use multiple IP addresses.

You should not infer that applications running on App Engine have a guarantee of distribution or uptime.

Recent blog posts from the App Engine team indicate that applications run in a single data center at a time. The apps are single homed, not distributed across multiple data centers.

Plugging the hub into many feeds seems like a great way to bootstrap and test the realtime cloud, even if there are some rough edges.

Re: On pubsubhubbub (Part 2) – Get with it, PuSH, you’re supposed to be realtime.

jeremyfelt — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:03:07 -0000

Yes, referring to the official PubSubHubBub server that Google employee Bret Slatkin wrote and deployed. The one that Google then Pushed to their Blogger feeds.

Got it, no multiple hubs. But by using multiple IPs from the AppEngine network, a distributed network and uptime is inferred.

My point is - if you're going to push yourself into millions of feeds as a solution, then you are ready to go.

BTW, I'm not arguing against PubSubHubbub here. I want it to work. That's all that I'm getting at.

Re: On pubsubhubbub (Part 2) – Get with it, PuSH, you’re supposed to be realtime.

Amos Jones — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:49:51 -0000

The "official" PubSubHubBub server that you are probably referring to is the server written by Bret Slatkin and deployed to Google App Engine. You can find the source for the server at the PubSubHubBub website.

A quick browse of the source will show you that it's a simple app. There's no "network of hubs".

All App Engine applications use multiple IP addresses for connections. The number if IP addresses used by these apps should not be used to infer a guarantee of uptime.

By the way, an application running on App Engine can not subscribe to rssCloud because these applications do not use the same IP address for inbound and outbound connections.

Re: On pubsubhubbub (Part 2) – Get with it, PuSH, you’re supposed to be realtime.

jeremyfelt — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:02:13 -0000

The two circumstances are different. There are always rough edges, but....

The rpc.rsscloud.org server you are probably referring to is maintained by Dave with no promise of uptime (correct me if I'm wrong, obviously) as a place to test your implementation. It is possible that the server can be rebooted for changes at any time. No big company is providing a constant connection here.

The WP plugin for rssCloud creates a server on every blog that installs it. Problems have been few and far between with this.

The pubsubhubbub server hosted by Google has been pushed into every blogger feed and implemented heavily in FeedBurner feeds by Google. It pushes updates from multiple IPs, indicating a network of hubs that they are using to guarantee uptime. By doing this, they have told me that they are ready for real time.

Re: On pubsubhubbub (Part 2) – Get with it, PuSH, you’re supposed to be realtime.

Amos Jones — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:29:18 -0000

I have the opposite problem. The "official" rssClolud server goes down and misses updates.

I guess there are rough edges around all new servers.

Re: Subscribing To RSS Cloud Feeds Via .TEL Domains

twitter-14902465 — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:01:26 -0000

Great job, well done! So is this the first rssCloud aggregator to have support for named identifiers? :)

On a side note, I'm wondering whether it might be useful if cloud enabled feeds should know their own identifier, so that we can do reverse lookups on them. Could be useful for search engines. Maybe we could use a convention like <author>andy.tel</author>

Re: Subscribing To RSS Cloud Feeds Via .TEL Domains

sull — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:34:03 -0000

this is great that you went ahead and did this experiment.
cheers!

Re: Subscribing To RSS Cloud Feeds Via .TEL Domains

twitter-6959952 — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 03:54:28 -0000

Great job!
And another (later) huge benefit when the clients start supporting feed lookups in .tel domains is for the content owner, who can jump ship to different hosting providers for his feeds (blogger, wordpress, etc...) and not have to tell anyone about it.

Re: Add RSS Cloud Element

Guest — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 04:28:17 -0000

Re: Add RSS Cloud Element

jeremyfelt — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:46:01 -0000

Thanks guys! Should have the second version up this weekend with the most important part - notification.

Re: Add RSS Cloud Element

brianjesse — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 02:11:37 -0000

this is cool, czeching it out

Re: Add RSS Cloud Element

twitter-1202561 — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 01:58:21 -0000

nice! small yet important little plugin.

Re: An rssCloud Progress Report – Week One

dave — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:23:20 -0000

I'll have a release of River2 that fully supports rssCloud shortly.

http://newsriver.org/river2

Dave

Re: An rssCloud Progress Report – Week One

jeremyfelt — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:00:02 -0000

Thank you. I've had fun with the rssCloud stuff. So many reasons to keep building on this area, I can't wait for the next corner.

Re: An rssCloud Progress Report – Week One

twitter-10971102 — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:14:57 -0000

thaks

Re: An rssCloud Progress Report – Week One

twitter-2293661 — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:35:34 -0000

great story